OL Offseason 2023

[Jamie_B]

6 minutes ago, HavePityPlease said:

 

I think the point people are making is that a mediocre "bell cow" is fine as long as the player blocks well, catches well, runs hard, and doesn't fumble.  That's what Green-Ellis was for the Pats, but we didn't use him that way - we tried to make him a bell cow and he wasn't good at it.  I think the faulty thinking is that if we have some top-shelf RB we're suddenly going to become a running team (we are NOT).  I know the easy daydream to get into is "wouldn't it be great to have a home run hitter hitting home runs all day" but we're not playing Madden here.  By far the #1 requirement of a Bengals RB now is - blocking and picking up blitzes.  If we can get some incredible blocking RB who is also a top-shelf runner, fine, invest in it.  What I see people arguing for is some high-yardage back which would quite obviously be wasted in our offense.  We need a guy who will punish teams for going small/dime to stop Joe so they stay honest and Joe can continue to pick them apart.

 

Having a good running game does more than I think people realize for opening up the pass. 

It means team can't just play cover 2 all the time and will have to bring safeties into the box.

 

People want to make the comparison with us and the Brady led Pats, but that team was unstoppable when Corey Dillon was there.

 

I'd also argue that Buffalo struggles for this very reason.

[HavePityPlease]

47 minutes ago, spicoli said:

Oh I don’t disagree with any of that. The guy was an impact player whenever he was able to get on the field though is all I’m saying. 

 

Right, sorry, I agree with that as well (I actually quite liked him in the very tiny window we got to see him), I should have clarified that I'm theorizing why Bengal fans tend to lump him in generally as a "bad RB pick".  He was, but not because of the player or position he was in.  Fans should be mad at the Bengals draft room and shoddy medical staff.

[HavePityPlease]

1 minute ago, Jamie_B said:

 

Having a good running game does more than I think people realize for opening up the pass. 

It means team can't just play cover 2 all the time and will have to bring safeties into the box.

 

People want to make the comparison with us and the Brady led Pats, but that team was unstoppable when Corey Dillon was there.

 

I'd also argue that Buffalo struggles for this very reason.

 

Right and I think that's all true but we simply don't have a running game, to put it bluntly.  Whether we fans like it or not, Taylor just does not seem to care to try and implement a play action system no matter how much we're told that's the system he runs.  I realize there's other topics of speculation around that (maybe we don't have the OL for it? ) but having seen four seasons of his play calling I just don't buy that it's ever coming.  The key aspect here is it worth it to spend a significant portion of the cap to kinda sorta find out if it turns us into a play action offense, when there's no evidence that it will?

 

In Buffalo's case I think they have a similar "problem" to us - they just keep the ball in the QB's hands because why not?  Buffalo IIRC had the highest YPC in the league last season.  Their problem is they don't use it wisely and a big part of that total is the QB's ability to run.  From what I saw of their RB's they were just fine, but small, scat-back-type, and rarely used anyway.  If you're going to do that, IMO, it's better to have the RB be a safety valve (in all passing-game aspects) rather than a home run hitter.

[Jamie_B]

3 minutes ago, HavePityPlease said:

 

Right and I think that's all true but we simply don't have a running game, to put it bluntly.  Whether we fans like it or not, Taylor just does not seem to care to try and implement a play action system no matter how much we're told that's the system he runs.  I realize there's other topics of speculation around that (maybe we don't have the OL for it? ) but having seen four seasons of his play calling I just don't buy that it's ever coming.  The key aspect here is it worth it to spend a significant portion of the cap to kinda sorta find out if it turns us into a play action offense, when there's no evidence that it will?

 

In Buffalo's case I think they have a similar "problem" to us - they just keep the ball in the QB's hands because why not?  Buffalo IIRC had the highest YPC in the league last season.  Their problem is they don't use it wisely and a big part of that total is the QB's ability to run.  From what I saw of their RB's they were just fine, but small, scat-back-type, and rarely used anyway.  If you're going to do that, IMO, it's better to have the RB be a safety valve (in all passing-game aspects) rather than a home run hitter.

 

 

There are times when I really want to sit down and watch tape with people so we can figure out what we see differently. Because for me we had to rearchitect the entire O last year early in the season to be a shotgun offense because the Oline could not sustain blocks long enough for Joe to run the O from under center. I'm not sure I've ever seen a team run play action from shotgun, that's typically RPO.  Mixon is best when he is running downhill, it becomes difficult to do that in RPO from the shotgun because it gives teams that extra second to plug up running lanes. Now I do like the interior of the Oline but I am of the strong belief that getting a good road grading right tackle will go a long way to fixing the running game. I also think if the Oline can continue to solidify that Taylor has shown based on changing the O last season that he is open to making those kinds of adjustments and that the play action pass can be added to his toolbox.

 

Josh Allen is Brett Farve but with the ability to run, he lives and dies by his abilities but risks turnovers way too often that ends up hurting the team. I'd argue that making him do less would help that team out much more.

[spicoli]

35 minutes ago, HavePityPlease said:

Fans should be mad at the Bengals draft room and shoddy medical staff

100%

[Le Tigre]

1 hour ago, Jamie_B said:

 

 

There are times when I really want to sit down and watch tape with people so we can figure out what we see differently. Because for me we had to rearchitect the entire O last year early in the season to be a shotgun offense because the Oline could not sustain blocks long enough for Joe to run the O from under center. I'm not sure I've ever seen a team run play action from shotgun, that's typically RPO.  Mixon is best when he is running downhill, it becomes difficult to do that in RPO from the shotgun because it gives teams that extra second to plug up running lanes. Now I do like the interior of the Oline but I am of the strong belief that getting a good road grading right tackle will go a long way to fixing the running game. I also think if the Oline can continue to solidify that Taylor has shown based on changing the O last season that he is open to making those kinds of adjustments and that the play action pass can be added to his toolbox.

 

Josh Allen is Brett Farve but with the ability to run, he lives and dies by his abilities but risks turnovers way too often that ends up hurting the team. I'd argue that making him do less would help that team out much more.

Kermit was rarely under center from what I could see, yet ran the ball a lot. By others' definition, McKinnon and Pacheco were dime-a-dozen. But they too, were smallish/shifty and--in Pacheco's case--ran like hair was on fire. 

 

I am with you that a running game is not just a luxury--but a necessity. Zac Taylor would have seen the effectiveness of Todd Gurley in McVay offenses back in the day, I am certain he has to figure the importance.   

[spicoli]

23 minutes ago, Le Tigre said:

I am certain he has to figure the importance.   

Which is why they’re almost certain to take a RB with one of their first two picks in this draft. 

[sparky151]

Not sure it will be that early. The position has been devalued in the NFL so there will still be good RBs on the board at the end of round 4. I don't mind taking one earlier but there's only 1 in this draft worth pick 28 and he'll likely be gone. I'd say the same is true of pick 60 and several backs are worth pick 92.

[Le Tigre]

1 hour ago, sparky151 said:

The position has been devalued in the NFL

[|kennethmw|]

 

 

McCaffery with 49ers last year

Rushing/ Recieving

159

746

4.7

6

/ 52

464

8.9

4

 

 

 

Mixon last year

210

814

3.9

7

/ 60

441

7.4

2

 

49ers OL was rated in the top Ten and Cincinnati was rated in the lower teens depending on the rating system.  Just Sayin'!!  

 

1 hour ago, Le Tigre said:

 

 

[Le Tigre]

Thanks for the stats Ken…but the point had nothing to do with Mixon. Rather the premise of the supposed unimportance of running backs in the NFL. 

[T-Dub]

6 hours ago, spicoli said:

Which is why they’re almost certain to take a RB with one of their first two picks in this draft. 

 

If so I can't wait to watch a new first round pick run into a DE 3 yards into the backfield.

 

Show me a RB in the NFL that's a game-changer behind a shit OL.

[Jamie_B]

6 minutes ago, T-Dub said:

 

If so I can't wait to watch a new first round pick run into a DE 3 yards into the backfield.

 

Show me a RB in the NFL that's a game-changer behind a shit OL.

 

This is exactly why I am not on board with the whole "Mixon is an albatross" nonsense

[spicoli]

1 hour ago, T-Dub said:

 

If so I can't wait to watch a new first round pick run into a DE 3 yards into the backfield.

 

Show me a RB in the NFL that's a game-changer behind a shit OL.

 

Honestly our guys weren’t a “shit OL” until all of the injuries started piling up. 
 

Also, why are you already convinced that OL won’t be addressed in FA?

[claptonrocks]

3 hours ago, kennethmw said:

 

 

McCaffery with 49ers last year

Rushing/ Recieving

159

746

4.7

6

/ 52

464

8.9

4

 

 

 

Mixon last year

210

814

3.9

7

/ 60

441

7.4

2

 

49ers OL was rated in the top Ten and Cincinnati was rated in the lower teens depending on the rating system.  Just Sayin'!!  

 

 

 

Your stats are wrong on McCaffery.

Get the real ones up to compare and we'll talk..

[claptonrocks]

1 hour ago, Le Tigre said:

Thanks for the stats Ken…but the point had nothing to do with Mixon. Rather the premise of the supposed unimportance of running backs in the NFL. 

Stats were wrong to start with......

[claptonrocks]

7 minutes ago, spicoli said:

 

Honestly our guys weren’t a “shit OL” until all of the injuries started piling up. 
 

Also, why are you already convinced that OL won’t be addressed in FA?

FA tackles are overpriced except a flyer on Beachem....

 

[spicoli]

8 minutes ago, claptonrocks said:

FA tackles are overpriced except a flyer on Beachem....

 

Well, either way…I 100% believe that our starting RT comes from FA, not the draft. 
 

 

[stryker57]

personally i will agree with those  wanting to have  different RB results, i just dont agree with those that want to cut mixon and throw another name back there. . but i can see the point of there is alot of cap going to him.    if he restructures and saves the team cap dollars and the team actually puts it into solidifying the OL into something better i would be fine with that.   

 

i think our interior OL is decent, i think a solid RT (or a healthy Collins) would go along way. Williams (or the LT needs to provide better protection.  i do not want to use a high draft pick on a RB, to me that would be a waste.  right now our bread and butter draft players should be  going on the players on the lines, the better our lines do the better the skill players and the LBs and DBs will do, 

[claptonrocks]

1 hour ago, spicoli said:

Well, either way…I 100% believe that our starting RT comes from FA, not the draft. 
 

 

Andrew Wylie is a FA now.

Starting RT for Chiefs before. 

 

His play wont help or hurt much.

65 305 with most traits as very average..

 

He's the  Andy Dalton of linemen😎

An  improvement and cost friendly... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BengalBuck]

1 hour ago, spicoli said:

 

Honestly our guys weren’t a “shit OL” until all of the injuries started piling up. 
 

Also, why are you already convinced that OL won’t be addressed in FA?

Yes and no. The OL was pretty bad in the beginning of the season because they hadn't played together at all in the preseason. J hope that's a lesson learned by Zac. But you are right in the fact that for most of the season they were a solid unit until the injury bug hit. But that OL still got an AFC championship minus three starters. 

[MichaelWeston]

Add Graham Glasgow to the list of C/Gs for depth. And a cap casualty. 

[claptonrocks]

4 hours ago, BengalBuck said:

Yes and no. The OL was pretty bad in the beginning of the season because they hadn't played together at all in the preseason. J hope that's a lesson learned by Zac. But you are right in the fact that for most of the season they were a solid unit until the injury bug hit. But that OL still got an AFC championship minus three starters. 

Good post but no the oline didn't get them to the championship gane...

 

The defensive wizardry of Lou and the skilled players on offense made it happen despite the mediocre play of the olne unit.

You know it..

[Cricket]

5 hours ago, claptonrocks said:

Good post but no the oline didn't get them to the championship gane...

 

The defensive wizardry of Lou and the skilled players on offense made it happen despite the mediocre play of the olne unit.

You know it..

Exactly.
 

In a nutshell: While KC’s offensive coaching staff last season was busy concocting plays/stunts/actions/etc. to take advantage of the opposing defense and what they were trying to do, OUR offensive coaching staff was busy concocting plays/stunts/actions/etc. to cover up for having a weak offensive line.

 

Fix the OL (and I mean REALLY fix the OL) and this offense takes off.

 

🦗

[T-Dub]

15 hours ago, BengalBuck said:

Yes and no. The OL was pretty bad in the beginning of the season because they hadn't played together at all in the preseason. J hope that's a lesson learned by Zac. But you are right in the fact that for most of the season they were a solid unit until the injury bug hit. But that OL still got an AFC championship minus three starters. 

 

I wouldn't call them solid at all. Adjustments were made to cover the biggest hole (bum RT) which had them flirting with average overall. Solid they were not, let alone good or championship caliber.