Give me Vick or Alex Smith in 2013

[Gary]

[quote name='SF2' timestamp='1357530102' post='1205753']
Smirh was 6-2-1 with a QB rating of 104 this year. Harbaugh simply wanted a guy with way more mobility at QB.
[/quote]

Maybe, but Capernick can do much more than Smith, and the whole "injury" think was a blessing in disguise for Harbaugh who didn't really care for Smith.

[Khatmandude]

[quote name='JBandJoeyV' timestamp='1357533958' post='1205794']
97 catches 1400 or so yards and 12 tds is "wasted"?

Im kind of on the fence about AD, but at the end of the day there is no way in hell the bengals are replacing a QB that made it to the playoffs in his first two seasons, is cheap, and is putting up decent numbers like his is (say the numbers are skewed all you frickin want).

So lets worry about how we can make this team and AD better in 2013 instead of talking about something that isnt going to fucking change.
[/quote]

Think of all the misses on AJ's deep passes....think what the numbers could be if the QB could actually get him the ball deep, consistently. So in essence, yes, he is being wasted. He's a monster...with a better QB he would put up disgusting numbers.

[Gary]

[quote name='Dalton4HOF' timestamp='1357531268' post='1205770']
i'd prefer to draft someone, i dont want anyone elses scraps. I like the skillset of Landry Jones he isnt as polished as some, but he has all of the tools, Of the video I have found he is making good reads and quick decisions, accurate on the run, etc. he should be a mid-late second rounder, we have 2 2nds i think, not like gradkowski is ever going to step in and do anything on the team, and if he was "teaching" anything to dalton(ala kitna) then he either isnt a good teacher or it isnt going to matter...

a late 2nd round pick is a very low risk pick, even if he sits and learns, etc...

we play some explosive offensive teams next year, the same QB will land us at 7-9 or 8-8. the defense wont be slowing down the patriots, packers, colts, vikings, lions, bears, let alone our own division issues, our offense couldnt even take the ravens backups, it took the defense starters scoring a TD against the ravens offensive backups to win the game... hell even the browns defense make a joke out of dalton.

a winning record isnt going to get handed to us like it was this year, i appreciate the steelers collapse and ravens resting players, but its all wasted on yet another embarrassing playoff "appearance"

aj green's career is going to get wasted, if people having noticed the frustration on his face all season long, an especially in the playoff game, youre in a dream world...

its miserable.
[/quote]

Delusional... Seriously.

You know who lose every year? Teams who constantly change QBs and personnel. Are you aware that there are GMs who think like you who can't wonder why they pick up decent players and they never get better? Because there is no chance to build chemistry when that happens. Good team keep the core together for years. We have a good team, and our team is young!

Let's keep replacing our QB every year. That will get us to the superbowl in no time!

[Passepartout]

These two QBs do not want to play backup but want to be the starters. But yeah, who knows what the future holds for them!

[scharm]

Lol @ AJ Green being wasted. 2 years. 2 playoff appearances. 2 pro bowls. Universally accepted as top 5 at his position.


This isn't Detroit.

[Khatmandude]

[quote name='scharm' timestamp='1357534922' post='1205802']
Lol @ AJ Green being wasted. 2 years. 2 playoff appearances. 2 pro bowls. Universally accepted as top 5 at his position.


This isn't Detroit.
[/quote]

Wasted is a strong word but it just may be fitting. Imagine AJ's numbers if Dalton hits him on deep passes consistently...then imagine his numbers if Dalton actually made progressions...often he's seen dejected because he was open but the ball didn't come his way, the QB didn't even look his way because the QB had predetermined who he was throwing to. AJ's frustrated.

[Jason]

[quote name='JBandJoeyV' timestamp='1357533958' post='1205794']
97 catches 1400 or so yards and 12 tds is "wasted"?

Im kind of on the fence about AD, but at the end of the day there is no way in hell the bengals are replacing a QB that made it to the playoffs in his first two seasons, is cheap, and is putting up decent numbers like his is (say the numbers are skewed all you frickin want).

So [b]lets worry about how we can make this team and AD better in 2013 instead of talking about something that isnt going to fucking change.[/b]
[/quote]

This.

+1

[scharm]

[quote name='Khatmandude' timestamp='1357535136' post='1205803']


Wasted is a strong word but it just may be fitting. Imagine AJ's numbers if Dalton hits him on deep passes consistently...then imagine his numbers if Dalton actually made progressions...often he's seen dejected because he was open but the ball didn't come his way, the QB didn't even look his way because the QB had predetermined who he was throwing to. AJ's frustrated.
[/quote]

It's fitting only if your high on Arabian drugs.


Easily the dumbest comment. If you want to agree with it go ahead.


Is the best plan to win the division in 2013 to replace your 3rd year Qb? Fuck no.

AD isn't fine, nor is he Jon Kitna, nor is he wasting AJ. The extreme positions on AD are idiotic.

[Bengals1181]

[quote name='Khatmandude' timestamp='1357535136' post='1205803']
Wasted is a strong word but it just may be fitting. Imagine AJ's numbers if Dalton hits him on deep passes consistently...then imagine his numbers if Dalton actually made progressions...often he's seen dejected because he was open but the ball didn't come his way, the QB didn't even look his way because the QB had predetermined who he was throwing to. AJ's frustrated.
[/quote]

I'm sure they're all frustrated.

[Tigris]

[quote name='Dalton4HOF' timestamp='1357531268' post='1205770']
i'd prefer to draft someone, i dont want anyone elses scraps. I like the skillset of Landry Jones he isnt as polished as some, but he has all of the tools, Of the video I have found he is making good reads and quick decisions, accurate on the run, etc. he should be a mid-late second rounder, we have 2 2nds i think, not like gradkowski is ever going to step in and do anything on the team, and if he was "teaching" anything to dalton(ala kitna) then he either isnt a good teacher or it isnt going to matter...

a late 2nd round pick is a very low risk pick, even if he sits and learns, etc...

we play some explosive offensive teams next year, the same QB will land us at 7-9 or 8-8. the defense wont be slowing down the patriots, packers, colts, vikings, lions, bears, let alone our own division issues, our offense couldnt even take the ravens backups, it took the defense starters scoring a TD against the ravens offensive backups to win the game... hell even the browns defense make a joke out of dalton.

a winning record isnt going to get handed to us like it was this year, i appreciate the steelers collapse and ravens resting players, but its all wasted on yet another embarrassing playoff "appearance"

aj green's career is going to get wasted, if people having noticed the frustration on his face all season long, an especially in the playoff game, youre in a dream world...

its miserable.
[/quote]

That sounded miserable.

Dalton is a 2nd year guy who has went to the playoffs both years.

That's not promising?

[oldschooler]

I tell you what, this board has went to hell. I know when it started. I just can't believe it has went on this long.


Anyway, some good people sure are saying an awful lot of stupid shit lately.


Andy Dalton was 7th in TD passes this season. He had 2 Rookies and a 2nd year player starting on the O-line (or a Street FA much of the season).
He had a lot of inexperience at the receiver position. He threw more TD passes than Cam Newton, Eli Manning, Michael Vick,
Alex Smith, Sam Bradford, Phillips Rivers, Joe Flacco, Roethlisberger, Matt Stafford, RG3 and Andrew Luck,

He led this team to do something Boomer and Carson never did.
Not only back to back Playoffs, but back to back winning seasons.

AJ Green is a beast. But he had a lot of drops. 9 (regular season) to be exact. And that was without playing
16 complete games. He had 1 less drop than Calvin Johnson. Who was targeted 40 more times. And had pretty
close to the same percentage of catches (59.1 while Johnson had 59.8.) But AJ had more TD catches. And yet,
he's frustrated? That is hilarious.


I know the QB gets all the glory for wins and all the bashing for losses, but some of you are ridiculous.

[cincity]

Thanks Old...

[VBurfict55]

[quote name='oldschooler' timestamp='1357563813' post='1205843']
I tell you what, this board has went to hell. I know when it started. I just can't believe it has went on this long.


Anyway, some good people sure are saying an awful lot of stupid shit lately.


Andy Dalton was 7th in TD passes this season. He had 2 Rookies and a 2nd year player starting on the O-line (or a Street FA much of the season).
He had a lot of inexperience at the receiver position. He threw more TD passes than Cam Newton, Eli Manning, Michael Vick,
Alex Smith, Sam Bradford, Phillips Rivers, Joe Flacco, Roethlisberger, Matt Stafford, RG3 and Andrew Luck,

He led this team to do something Boomer and Carson never did.
Not only back to back Playoffs, but back to back winning seasons.

AJ Green is a beast. But he had a lot of drops. 9 (regular season) to be exact. And that was without playing
16 complete games. He had 1 less drop than Calvin Johnson. Who was targeted 40 more times. And had pretty
close to the same percentage of catches (59.1 while Johnson had 59.8.) But AJ had more TD catches. And yet,
he's frustrated? That is hilarious.


I know the QB gets all the glory for wins and all the bashing for losses, but some of you are ridiculous.
[/quote]

x2

[SouthPaw]

[quote name='Bengals1181' timestamp='1357532903' post='1205787']
Dalton? Why is that even a question? You can spout whatever rushing stats you want, but Dalton has 6 more career wins and 2 more playoff appearances. And only one of them has been called out by his #1 WR for pouting on the sidelines.
[/quote]

Mentally. Yes. Physically. Hell no. Ideally you would want Dalton's mentality paired w/ Newton's physical skills(Think RG III), but that is rare. Players mature at different rates. Steve Smith is a notoriously malcontented diva wide receiver in this league and its well documented, so YOU can spout that argument off all you would like, but it doesnt work. On top of that, there is no comparing which overall TEAM is better, that may have a little something to do w/ the 6 more wins. Just ask Ron Rivera how good Cam Newton is, he just saved his job for him the last month of th season. Am I saying i like Cam's actions at times, absolutely not, but losing can do that to you. He is a transcendant talent in this league that will only get better both physically and mentally(you would hope). I like Dalton, I just havent liked what i have seen from him the last month or so, aside from the big completion to Green against Pittsburgh. I just hope he gets better at this point.

[fluhartz]

[quote name='cincity' timestamp='1357564900' post='1205846']
Thanks Old...
[/quote]

x2

[Vol_Bengal]

I hope I'm proven wrong... and I think he'll have every opportunity to show himself this next year as the draft class is horrible and Bengals won't bring any of those guys in - but some of those throws (particularly the two throws to the endzone to AJ) show me that I think Dalton will be a good to very good quarterback. I don't believe he'll ever be great. Just my opinion. I don't know that Dalton can make the big game winning throws. I do believe an offensive coordinator change is in order - I'm praying that Gruden gets the Arizona, Cleveland, or Philly jobs. Please, please, please... take him. How in the world does AJ get 0 targets in the first half... put the guy in motion, stacked formation, whatever to get the guy touches. Best or second best receiver in the game and we don't even throw the ball his way for a whole half. Give Hue Jackson the OC job - players love the guy & love to play for him.

I've had my fill of Gresham... such promise for a guy drafted that high and we've gotten nowhere near the value for his draft position.
I believe, given a year or two, that Jones / Sanu will fill out and be a nice #2 and #3 receivers(in whichever order) in this offense.
Give Robinson time at center and pencil him in as the starter next year.
Figure out a game changing running back. If that means spending 2-3 picks on RBs then so be it. A 2, 4, and 6 (or whatever combination) and build it by committee or whatever. But we have to have explosion from the running game and we have zero.

Not that I care for the rule overall... but to be nitpicky - why wasn't that a helmet to helmet penalty against Houston when AJ got decked on that first throw to the endzone. Go back and watch it... the safety gets back into the play because the ball was underthrown and he plants the crown of his helmet right at Green's chin while Green is still in the air. That isn't defenseless receiver??? Just something I thought as soon as I saw it and wondered why nothing was mentioned at all.

[oldschooler]

From Mo Egger's blog ....




A lot of things have to happen for the Bengals to not only make the playoffs, but advance in them, in 2013.

They need more playmakers and they need something more dynamic from their running game. They need the offensive line to improve. They need some turnover in both the secondary and among the linebackers. And given his now startlingly bad record in the postseason, one might argue that they need a new coach that they won't be getting.

Most important though, the Bengals need better play from Andy Dalton.

Andy has had two nice, productive, NFL seasons. Let's be honest though, if prior to the postseason, you came up with a confidence ranking of playoff quarterbacks, Andy would've probably been listed as 11th, right?

(Don't confuse that for a ranking of which quarterbacks will have better careers, or which ones have the most or least to work with, or which ones are dating the hottest college football sideline pop-tarts, it would be a ranking of which quarterbacks are most and least likely to win big playoff games)

That's not a knock on Andy, it really isn't. No one thought that he'd be keeping company with guys like Brady, Rodgers, and Manning, but at some point he's going to have to rank a lot closer to those guys than quarterbacks like Christian Ponder or whomever that dude behind center was for the Vikings on Saturday night.

Andy deserves the credit he's gotten for winning 19 games in two seasons (ok, Gradkowski won the opener at Cleveland last season), and this isn't intended to pin the latest playoff loss squarely on Dalton, but if you watched the Bengals throughout their 17 games, how often did you think that you were watching one of the NFL's top five QBs?

Top ten?

Top fifteen?

I can hear Andy Apologists clearing their throats now. I get it. The offensive line was not great. The running game lacks sizzle (though it was almost criminally underused on Saturday) and the Bengals need to either develop or find more outside weapons.

But among the recurring themes throughout this season were Dalton throwing too many interceptions, Dalton not finding AJ Green enough, Dalton not being very accurate, Dalton not exhibiting good pocket awareness, Dalton either getting rid of the football took quickly or holding on to it too long, and Dalton's offense not getting into the end zone nearly enough.

(Again, one TD in their last 36 drives to end the season. That's nearly impossible)


Those themes from 2012 carried over into 2013. Andy Dalton did not play well against the Texans.

This wasn't just a one-game thing. He was not very good for most of the season's first half. And after being very good throughout November, his play took a nosedive in both December and January.

What Andy has done in his first two seasons is fine, but for a team that will now be judged only by how often they win in the playoffs, he's going to have to do better.

Maybe he can, but a big part of me worries that he can't.

Year three, especially in the NFL's new age of accelerated success for younger QBs, is a pivotal season for a quarterback. Gone are the rookie-season training wheels. Done are the excuses about inexperience. The third year, especially for a team that HAS to do better in 2013 is when Andy Dalton HAS to make a leap from good to something greater.

The Bengals must do better in 2013, which means Andy Dalton must do better in 2013.

It's not to say that their window is closing, for starters the window is always at least cracked open in today's NFL, at least for any team not based in Cleveland, and the Bengals have intact a good nucleus that should give them a chance for the next few years, but keeping this particular group intact beyond 2013 and 2014 is going to be extremely difficult. The Bengals will have some tough decisions to make about some key players within the next few years, and the inevitable pay raises due to some their better guys will make keeping all of them nearly impossible.

Throw in the fact that the Steelers are in transition and that the Ravens face some pressing questions this offseason on top of an already mediocre AFC, and 2013 sure looks like the year where the Bengals could be best positioned to make a run.

It won't happen if Andy Dalton doesn't improve. And soon.

The big games where the team's QB fails to target his best weapon even once in a half must be in the rear-view mirror. Accuracy needs to improve. A better sense of the pass rush and the pocket must develop. And without getting all technical here, something I'm not qualified to do, Andy Dalton has to look the part of a higher echelon quarterback than he has in his first two years.

Oh, and plays like the deep ball he overthrew to AJ in the end zone? The play we'll be thinking about for the next eight months? He has to connect on those more often too.

Chances are, if we're drawing up a list from top to bottom of the playoffs QBs we're most and least confident in heading into next year's playoffs, and Andy's near the bottom, the Bengals stay in the postseason will again be a short one.

The Bengals are not getting a new quarterback. They're not drafting one. They're not trading for one. And they aren't shuffling QBs on the depth chart. Andy Dalton is the guy in 2012, and you could certainly do a lot worse than him as your starting quarterback heading into a season.

The main question is, will Andy do a lot better next season so they Bengals, in turn, can do a lot better next postseason?



Read more: http://www.espn1530.com/pages/mo.html#ixzz2HIUkHfYw

[oldschooler]

From Peter King. Funny he thought the Vikings looked like a real NFL team ...


[b][i]Goat of the Week[/i][/b]

[b]Andy Dalton, QB, Cincinnati.[/b] Pretty simple. All you need to do after the Bengals' 19-13 loss is look at Dalton's third-down passing numbers: 1 of 8 passing for seven yards, no touchdowns, no interceptions and one drop.

Dalton's been a good player in getting the Bengals to the playoffs in his first two seasons. But for the second straight year the Bengals looked like the lone JV team in the 12-team playoff dance. Dalton has to play better in big moments. He sure didn't Saturday afternoon in Houston.


Read More: [url="http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl/news/20130107/peter-king-monday-morning-quarterback-nfl-playoffs-wild-card/#ixzz2HIZTx5E9"]http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl/news/20130107/peter-king-monday-morning-quarterback-nfl-playoffs-wild-card/#ixzz2HIZTx5E9[/url]

[SouthPaw]

[quote name='oldschooler' timestamp='1357567176' post='1205854']
From Mo Egger's blog ....




A lot of things have to happen for the Bengals to not only make the playoffs, but advance in them, in 2013.

They need more playmakers and they need something more dynamic from their running game. They need the offensive line to improve. They need some turnover in both the secondary and among the linebackers. And given his now startlingly bad record in the postseason, one might argue that they need a new coach that they won't be getting.

Most important though, the Bengals need better play from Andy Dalton.

Andy has had two nice, productive, NFL seasons. Let's be honest though, if prior to the postseason, you came up with a confidence ranking of playoff quarterbacks, Andy would've probably been listed as 11th, right?

(Don't confuse that for a ranking of which quarterbacks will have better careers, or which ones have the most or least to work with, or which ones are dating the hottest college football sideline pop-tarts, it would be a ranking of which quarterbacks are most and least likely to win big playoff games)

That's not a knock on Andy, it really isn't. No one thought that he'd be keeping company with guys like Brady, Rodgers, and Manning, but at some point he's going to have to rank a lot closer to those guys than quarterbacks like Christian Ponder or whomever that dude behind center was for the Vikings on Saturday night.

Andy deserves the credit he's gotten for winning 19 games in two seasons (ok, Gradkowski won the opener at Cleveland last season), and this isn't intended to pin the latest playoff loss squarely on Dalton, but if you watched the Bengals throughout their 17 games, how often did you think that you were watching one of the NFL's top five QBs?

Top ten?

Top fifteen?

I can hear Andy Apologists clearing their throats now. I get it. The offensive line was not great. The running game lacks sizzle (though it was almost criminally underused on Saturday) and the Bengals need to either develop or find more outside weapons.

But among the recurring themes throughout this season were Dalton throwing too many interceptions, Dalton not finding AJ Green enough, Dalton not being very accurate, Dalton not exhibiting good pocket awareness, Dalton either getting rid of the football took quickly or holding on to it too long, and Dalton's offense not getting into the end zone nearly enough.

(Again, one TD in their last 36 drives to end the season. That's nearly impossible)


Those themes from 2012 carried over into 2013. Andy Dalton did not play well against the Texans.

This wasn't just a one-game thing. He was not very good for most of the season's first half. And after being very good throughout November, his play took a nosedive in both December and January.

What Andy has done in his first two seasons is fine, but for a team that will now be judged only by how often they win in the playoffs, he's going to have to do better.

Maybe he can, but a big part of me worries that he can't.

Year three, especially in the NFL's new age of accelerated success for younger QBs, is a pivotal season for a quarterback. Gone are the rookie-season training wheels. Done are the excuses about inexperience. The third year, especially for a team that HAS to do better in 2013 is when Andy Dalton HAS to make a leap from good to something greater.

The Bengals must do better in 2013, which means Andy Dalton must do better in 2013.

It's not to say that their window is closing, for starters the window is always at least cracked open in today's NFL, at least for any team not based in Cleveland, and the Bengals have intact a good nucleus that should give them a chance for the next few years, but keeping this particular group intact beyond 2013 and 2014 is going to be extremely difficult. The Bengals will have some tough decisions to make about some key players within the next few years, and the inevitable pay raises due to some their better guys will make keeping all of them nearly impossible.

Throw in the fact that the Steelers are in transition and that the Ravens face some pressing questions this offseason on top of an already mediocre AFC, and 2013 sure looks like the year where the Bengals could be best positioned to make a run.

It won't happen if Andy Dalton doesn't improve. And soon.

The big games where the team's QB fails to target his best weapon even once in a half must be in the rear-view mirror. Accuracy needs to improve. A better sense of the pass rush and the pocket must develop. And without getting all technical here, something I'm not qualified to do, Andy Dalton has to look the part of a higher echelon quarterback than he has in his first two years.

Oh, and plays like the deep ball he overthrew to AJ in the end zone? The play we'll be thinking about for the next eight months? He has to connect on those more often too.

Chances are, if we're drawing up a list from top to bottom of the playoffs QBs we're most and least confident in heading into next year's playoffs, and Andy's near the bottom, the Bengals stay in the postseason will again be a short one.

The Bengals are not getting a new quarterback. They're not drafting one. They're not trading for one. And they aren't shuffling QBs on the depth chart. Andy Dalton is the guy in 2012, and you could certainly do a lot worse than him as your starting quarterback heading into a season.

The main question is, will Andy do a lot better next season so they Bengals, in turn, can do a lot better next postseason?



Read more: [url="http://www.espn1530.com/pages/mo.html#ixzz2HIUkHfYw"]http://www.espn1530....l#ixzz2HIUkHfYw[/url]
[/quote]

A lot of truth here.

[JC]

I think a troubling trend is that the guy just seems to regress dramatically in the final weeks of the season. We played 5 games in December and the only one AD really looked decent in was the Dallas game. In 2011, he played 4 games in December and 1 in January and didn't have a game where he completed over 60% of his passes and frankly didn't look very good in those games.

I think some of the things he really needs to work on would be stepping up in the pocket and keeping his eyes downfield when he senses pressure instead of spazzing and looking for a lane to run. Drew Brees does this extremely well. He steps up and keeps looking for guys to get open or he throws them open. Certainly, it is contingent on having a pocket to step up into, but I feel like most of the time it is there.

Also, work on throwing across his body. If he is going to roll out to his left, which he does when he gets out of the pocket, start working on throwing across because usually it seems like he is throwing it behind his man when he does this.

He is in some elite company with some of the stuff he has done, but for being rather immobile, his accuracy needs to become better. He isn't going to win you any games or make many plays with his feet. We need more complete passes to guys that are going to do that.

[T-Dub]

Alex Smith is garbage. Vick is also garbage, and a piece of shit.

[Vol_Bengal]

[quote name='SouthPaw' timestamp='1357570030' post='1205870']
A lot of truth here.
[/quote]

x2. No hate intended to Dalton... but this year I think shows a lot with regard to can he win you the big one? Is he good enough to get you there and that is it?

[Khatmandude]

[quote name='scharm' timestamp='1357560161' post='1205834']
It's fitting only if your high on Arabian drugs.


Easily the dumbest comment. If you want to agree with it go ahead.


Is the best plan to win the division in 2013 to replace your 3rd year Qb? Fuck no.

AD isn't fine, nor is he Jon Kitna, nor is he wasting AJ. The extreme positions on AD are idiotic.
[/quote]

Nobody is suggesting replacing the QB in 2013 except the OP. I've laid out what I think should happen and it's very reasonable.

Now, with Green. To say that his numbers wouldn't be significantly better with a better QB is being dishonest. You can count only the long balls Andy can't hit him on and Greens numbers would be ridiculous. Sure, they're very good now but not to their potential. In effect, a "wasting". Again, strong word but it fits. You disagree, great. It's easy for me to see though.

[mongo]

A lot of people are raging their way into hardline positions their pride may not let them walk away from.

Worse, I'm seeing real ugliness from some people I thought were better than this.

Nothing said today can change what happened Saturday. It can only change how people look at you tomorrow.

[BengalsOwn]

Jesus Christ, you people want to replace Dalton with an older, more expensive version of a mediocre quarterback? It would have been interesting if Roger Goodell didn't convince Michael Vick to not sign with the Bengals, and to sign with the Eagles instead. Palmer would have made his trade demand, and Vick would have been his replacement. Who knows how things might have gone in a smaller market, with better, level-headed offensive players.