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7 hours ago, BlackJesus said:

 

I strongly disagree. The difference between Higgins and your average WR is so much larger in my view than the gap between Bates and your average FS. 

 

The NFL is now an offensive 'playmaker' league and if you don't have them your team is going nowhere, no matter how many other good players that don't touch the ball your team has.

 

This is why QBs are now going for 50 mill, and WRs are now going for 25 mill a year, as the rest of the league realizes scoring firepower is necessary to compete. 

 

I get what you are saying, but hearing from guys like Hilton and Reader have altered my opinion of Bates.  This isn't just about what he does on the field. 

 

Look, I like Higgins.  Still, Chase is the #1 and will be for a while.  Paying Higgins #1 money would be a mistake.  I also think there are other players that would look pretty damned good being a #2 behind Chase and getting balls from Joe Burrow.  John Taylor was a good WR, but he wouldn't have done nearly as well if the entire defense wasn't planning for Jerry Rice.  Higgins is going to get similar opportunities.  It's no mistake that some of Higgins' best games were late in the season when other teams finally figured out you can't single Chase at all. 

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11 hours ago, UncleEarl said:

 

I get what you are saying, but hearing from guys like Hilton and Reader have altered my opinion of Bates.  This isn't just about what he does on the field. 

 

Look, I like Higgins.  Still, Chase is the #1 and will be for a while.  Paying Higgins #1 money would be a mistake.  I also think there are other players that would look pretty damned good being a #2 behind Chase and getting balls from Joe Burrow.  John Taylor was a good WR, but he wouldn't have done nearly as well if the entire defense wasn't planning for Jerry Rice.  Higgins is going to get similar opportunities.  It's no mistake that some of Higgins' best games were late in the season when other teams finally figured out you can't single Chase at all. 

Bates couldn't cover either one of them and will get a chance to prove it next year when he's with some bunch of scrubs elsewhere.

Tee far > than Bates as far as value to the team.

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2 hours ago, High School Harry said:

Bates couldn't cover either one of them and will get a chance to prove it next year when he's with some bunch of scrubs elsewhere.

Tee far > than Bates as far as value to the team.

 

#2 WR vs. defensive leader.  Ok,  Whatever you say.

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1 hour ago, sparky151 said:

Higgins is worth far more to the Bengals than Bates. If Tee went down, we'd be playing Mike Thomas. If Bates sits out, we have Dax.

 

 

Keep in mind that Dax Hill was a very versatile safety at Michigan over a long career, yet almost never played a deep free safety role like Bates. Hill usually played much closer to the line of scrimmage. Not to say that Hill cannot do it at the pro level with his elite athleticism, only that Hill played more of a Vonn Bell role (another safety who may have to be replaced next season) and far-far less of a Bates type role in college.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Bates' decision to not show up to camp could backfire.

 

He has given up 100% of his reps with the Starting Unit and everyone has moved up one in the pecking order as a result when it comes to practice time and practice reps.  As a result, the Bengals Ownership, Taylor and Anarumo will have more information to make a better decision on what the difference would be between the cost and return of Bates versus his competition.  The money was spent where it needed to be,...on the Offensive Line.  Corners get paid twice as much as Safeties, at least the Top-10 do.  WR's get three to four times as much as Safeties, and we have two that will need to get paid.  Our QB is the best in the NFL, or will be by the time his next contract comes up.  He'll cost a fortune.

 

Bates could very easily have cut his own throat.

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On 8/1/2022 at 11:04 AM, UncleEarl said:

 

#2 WR vs. defensive leader.  Ok,  Whatever you say.

I think 

 

On 8/1/2022 at 11:04 AM, UncleEarl said:

 

#2 WR vs. defensive leader.  Ok,  Whatever you say.

He said team value not leader..

 

Higgins is worth more than Bates imo..

I know you don't think Bates is the only leader on defense.

 

I believe Higgins is a top ten receiver in

the league abd hopefully is here for years..

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His hold out is completely irrational at this point, since the Bengals are not allowed to give him a long term contact until after the season (even if they wanted to). Another team is also not allowed to give him the long term deal he wants until after the season. 

 

So what the hell does he think he is accomplishing by pouting and sitting out?

 

Either report for work and do your fucking job for 13 million (over twice what he's ever made in the NFL) -- or announce you will sit out the entire year for no pay. The options are very simple. 

 

He is not even close to Derwin James, if he was the Bengals would have paid him what he wanted. 

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18 hours ago, BlackJesus said:

He is not even close to Derwin James, if he was the Bengals would have paid him what he wanted. 

That seems unlikely.

 

Derwin James received 42 million in guaranteed money. The high mark for the Bengals in guaranteed money on a second contract is 20.5 million given to free agent DJ Reader. Trey Hendrickson received 16 million in guaranteed money from the Bengals. With the way the NFL is trending in the last couple of years, absolutely no way their agents let those elite free agents sign a contract with the Bengals for so little in guaranteed money. Teams like the Chargers and the Bills are being bold in trying to build long championship windows for their organizations. Hopefully the Bengals will start doing the same next offseason. 

 

It seems like Bates has already given the Bengals a general timeframe for when he will sign his franchise tag and show up this preseason. It is why he remains on the 1st team depth chart week after week. Seems to be keeping himself in great shape though. So that's a big plus and it isn't like the Bengals have a new coordinator and are installing a new defense. He will report to the team soon and take over as the free safety for one final year.

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10 minutes ago, dex said:

That seems unlikely.

 

Derwin James received 42 million in guaranteed money. The high mark for the Bengals in guaranteed money on a second contract is 20.5 million given to free agent DJ Reader. Trey Hendrickson received 16 million in guaranteed money from the Bengals. With the way the NFL is trending in the last couple of years, absolutely no way their agents let those elite free agents sign a contract with the Bengals for so little in guaranteed money. Teams like the Chargers and the Bills are being bold in trying to build long championship windows for their organizations. Hopefully the Bengals will start doing the same next offseason. 

 

It seems like Bates has already given the Bengals a general timeframe for when he will sign his franchise tag and show up this preseason. It is why he remains on the 1st team depth chart week after week. Seems to be keeping himself in great shape though. So that's a big plus and it isn't like the Bengals have a new coordinator and are installing a new defense. He will report to the team soon and take over as the free safety for one final year.


As soon as Bates signs the contract, the money is guaranteed.  He could get hit by a bus an hour after signing and he still gets paid.  But when he signs, he is then required to show up for training camp / team activities.

 

Some tagged players wait to sign so that they don’t have to go through training camp.

 

The risk Bates runs by NOT yet signing the tender, is if he gets hit by a bus, the team can withdraw the tender and he’d get nothing.  

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41 minutes ago, Cricket said:

Some tagged players wait to sign so that they don’t have to go through training camp.

This would be my uneducated guess. He will be there week 1.

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On 8/1/2022 at 3:41 PM, dex said:

Keep in mind that Dax Hill was a very versatile safety at Michigan over a long career, yet almost never played a deep free safety role like Bates. Hill usually played much closer to the line of scrimmage. Not to say that Hill cannot do it at the pro level with his elite athleticism, only that Hill played more of a Vonn Bell role (another safety who may have to be replaced next season) and far-far less of a Bates type role in college.

 

 

He's also a wet-behind-the-ears rookie compared to an NFL vet, regardless of athleticism or skills.  

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18 minutes ago, UncleEarl said:

Should be interesting.  Bates has all the motivation in the world, and the worry that he could be outplayed by a rookie. 

 

Bates had to come in.  He didn't want to be the next Todd Bell.

I'd bet he money this was the week Bates had always planned to sign his tag. It has always felt like the coaches always knew exactly when he planned to show up. There was clearly plenty of communication between the parties. Bates probably did the Bengals a favor by showing up late, since it gave Dax Hill to play free safety for most of training camp. They want Hill to be able to play everywhere in the defensive backfield, and he almost never played deep for Michigan. So all that did was increase his versatility. 

 

I'm sure Bates has arrived in great physical shape, and will get slotted back into the starting lineup at free safety for the 2 practices against the Rams this week. Those two practices will be like dress rehearsals for the regular season. 

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1 hour ago, dex said:

I'd bet he money this was the week Bates had always planned to sign his tag. It has always felt like the coaches always knew exactly when he planned to show up. There was clearly plenty of communication between the parties. Bates probably did the Bengals a favor by showing up late, since it gave Dax Hill to play free safety for most of training camp. They want Hill to be able to play everywhere in the defensive backfield, and he almost never played deep for Michigan. So all that did was increase his versatility. 

 

I'm sure Bates has arrived in great physical shape, and will get slotted back into the starting lineup at free safety for the 2 practices against the Rams this week. Those two practices will be like dress rehearsals for the regular season. 

Just like clockwork, right? It was always going to be this way, and everyone knew it. 

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10 minutes ago, westside bengal said:

Bates admitted that his play was down during the regular season last year because his contract situation was in his head.  He mentally showed back up during the playoffs.

 

Are the Bengals going to get the same Bates this year?

 

I would think so, at least - he's playing for a life altering contract.

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