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36 minutes ago, New Jersey Bengal said:

Why not just trade him for players or a high draft pick?

I think he has to sign the franchise tag in order to be traded.

I believe once the July 15 deadline passed, he can no longer be signed to a longer deal until November or December, or maybe until after the season.

If I'm wrong, someone please explain.

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Just now, SmoothD said:

I think he has to sign the franchise tag in order to be traded.

I believe once the July 15 deadline pass, he can no longer be signed to a longer deal until November or December

If I'm wrong, someone please explain.

 

Not sure about if tag and trade is still in effect but any new contract offers for players that are eligible wont be allowed until after the regular season. Meaning Joe, Tee, and others are eligible after the regular season.

 

I suspect they get Joe done by then as that's what they did when Carson was eligible for his 2nd deal. At this point I'll be surprised if Bates is here next season.

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2 hours ago, SmoothD said:

I think he has to sign the franchise tag in order to be traded.

I believe once the July 15 deadline passed, he can no longer be signed to a longer deal until November or December, or maybe until after the season.

If I'm wrong, someone please explain.

 

You have it right. A team trading for Bates would only get him for the 2022 season (assuming he signs his tender). So nobody will offer a lot.

 

He could have been traded more easily before July 15 if he and the team wanted that but apparently he doesn't have any suitors willing to pony up both a big deal for Bates and a good pick for the Bengals. Reader has it right that Bates won't sit out the year and I expect he'll be back before week 1. It could be even sooner if the team excuses him from practicing. 

 

The team ought to give him a promise not to tag him next year if that would get him into camp now. 

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https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-safety-rankings-tiers-2022

 

 

Kevin Byard has been a prototypical free safety since he was a draft prospect. He is coming off a season with a career-high 90.4 overall PFF grade and a 90.9 coverage grade. That marked his third career 80.0-plus coverage grade, and it was also the third time he was aligned at free safety for more than 600 snaps over a season.

Antoine Winfield Jr. may be entering only his third year in the league, but he hit the ground running for a Super Bowl team and then backed that up with an 86.1 PFF grade that ranked second in the league last year. Winfield is a playmaker and exceptionally good in coverage, where his ability to read the play quickly really comes to the fore. 

Marcus Williams signed a big free agent deal this offseason and has been incredibly consistent in the NFL at a position where consistently high-end play is hard to come by. 

Jessie Bates III is only a year removed from a 90.1 PFF grade and a truly elite season for the Bengals. That season brought forth his best career PFF grade by more than 10 grading points, although the campaigns on either side of it might be why the Bengals have seemed reluctant to hand him a monster new contract.

Similarly, Justin Simmons’ 90.7 PFF grade from 2019 represents his career-high by more than 10 grading points. Both players have shown elite upside and play, but they haven’t been able to maintain that peak for as long as some others.

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1 hour ago, Kingspoint said:

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-safety-rankings-tiers-2022

 

 

Kevin Byard has been a prototypical free safety since he was a draft prospect. He is coming off a season with a career-high 90.4 overall PFF grade and a 90.9 coverage grade. That marked his third career 80.0-plus coverage grade, and it was also the third time he was aligned at free safety for more than 600 snaps over a season.

Antoine Winfield Jr. may be entering only his third year in the league, but he hit the ground running for a Super Bowl team and then backed that up with an 86.1 PFF grade that ranked second in the league last year. Winfield is a playmaker and exceptionally good in coverage, where his ability to read the play quickly really comes to the fore. 

Marcus Williams signed a big free agent deal this offseason and has been incredibly consistent in the NFL at a position where consistently high-end play is hard to come by. 

Jessie Bates III is only a year removed from a 90.1 PFF grade and a truly elite season for the Bengals. That season brought forth his best career PFF grade by more than 10 grading points, although the campaigns on either side of it might be why the Bengals have seemed reluctant to hand him a monster new contract.

Similarly, Justin Simmons’ 90.7 PFF grade from 2019 represents his career-high by more than 10 grading points. Both players have shown elite upside and play, but they haven’t been able to maintain that peak for as long as some others.

Bates is good but with JB Higgins Jonah and Chase about to make huge money Bates is down the list of priorities.

 

Bengals will pay him a nice salary of 13mil to play this season then then hell leave and both move on.

 

He'd be wise to take it imo.

 

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8 hours ago, dex said:

Bates had a brilliant 2020 season, and may have been the best player on the team from start to finish. (admittedly there wasn't much else to choose from that year). Even if he didn't have a great reg season last year, that will have no bearing on how he will play this season. I expect Bates to have a great year and sign a big contract elsewhere with plenty of guaranteed money. Entering free agency at such a young age will be a great selling point. The Bengals will get a 3rd or 4th round comp pick for him down the road.

 

i dont disagree with anything said here. in case my point of view came across wrong, i just mean that safeties, in general, have far more parity, and i think its also a position the worse those around you are the more opportunities you have to look good, but that aside, id love to have a crystal ball and see what a year of hill looks like, of course best case is hill gets to learn from bates for a year first. but after looking over the position and its ranks, it seems any given year a 2nd or 3rd round pick may likely net you a top half of the league safety. I like bates, but since 2020 he has gone from best player to this season id put him nearly 10th, as far as my expectations of player performance goes.

 

7 hours ago, T-Dub said:

I still think he signs at the last minute and plays.  

 

i agree, there is no history of sitting out on the tag working out for you, and it double his career earnings in 1 year, its sort of a no brainer.

 

3 hours ago, UncleEarl said:

 

Damn.  Sounds like Bates is an important person in the room. 

 

Sounds like a modern day Tony Perez.

 

everyone has always said he is a great leader, for som reason my brain envisions him calming down eli apple and putting him in his place, i have no reason to imagine that, just what pops in my head. to me "putting out fires" is putting emotional players in check when needed. could be off on that.

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14 hours ago, GoBengals said:

 

 

everyone has always said he is a great leader, for som reason my brain envisions him calming down eli apple and putting him in his place, i have no reason to imagine that, just what pops in my head. to me "putting out fires" is putting emotional players in check when needed. could be off on that.

 

Some guys have that ability to chill people out and get everyone to get along.  First you have to have everyone's respect as a player.  Sounds like Bates is that guy.  Makes me second guess letting him go.  A solid locker room is vastly underrated.

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Every year the Bengals get the same amount of salary cap money to build a roster as every other team.  With a quickly escalating salary cap I am not sure how paying Bates another $2-3 million a year now is going to impact salaries 2-3-4 years down the road?  Won't most of Bates salary already have been paid by then?

 

Beginning to sound like the typical MB excuse to me.

 

 

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6 hours ago, UncleEarl said:

Makes me second guess letting him go.

 

... It just comes down to math. The pie only has so many slices. Can't pay him top dollar and keep the QB-WR connections intact (which is the strength of the team). 

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5 hours ago, westside bengal said:

Every year the Bengals get the same amount of salary cap money to build a roster as every other team.

 

Right now the Bengals pay Burrow 9 million a year. Which is why they could afford free agents like Hendrickson, Hilton, Reader etc. But soon Burrow's number will likely eclipse 50 million.

 

Right now the Bengals pay Chase 8 million. But in 3 years that will be above 30 million.

 

The Burrow-Higgins-Chase trio will cost around 110 million a year soon. Right now it costs like 20 million a year. 

 

That's 90 million in savings you need to get from using cheaper drafted players over guys on a second contract who cashed in (like Bates wants to do).

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49 minutes ago, westside bengal said:

Every year the Bengals get the same amount of salary cap money to build a roster as every other team.  With a quickly escalating salary cap I am not sure how paying Bates another $2-3 million a year now is going to impact salaries 2-3-4 years down the road?  Won't most of Bates salary already have been paid by then?

 

Beginning to sound like the typical MB excuse to me.

 

 

 

in case you arent joking.

 

so you expect every other player to take market value based on 2022 salary cap so all of the increase can be given to bates?

 

"i mean the cap goes up, but no one in the nfl is going to want more money on the market so its easy as pie bates is basically covered"

 

lol, you cant be serious, right? the cap goes up, everyone is magically worth more, because the cap went up, how do you suspect we talk the other 52 players into not wanting more money because we gave it to bates?

 

not to mention the flux in the cap over the last 10-11 years has been wild, if you could guarantee 2014 to 2019 stability sure, plan to spend, it just jump way high depending on the nfl rights and apple deal in a year, and all these new TNF SNF deals, but all 53 guys get more money eventually, a constant rotation of new money being spend on all roster spots with each new contract. if we locked up the other 52 guys to 5 years deals right now, then w can give the bump to cover bates alone.

 

 image.png

 

^^^ last 11 years is a trainwreck.

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1 hour ago, BlackJesus said:

 

Right now the Bengals pay Burrow 9 million a year. Which is why they could afford free agents like Hendrickson, Hilton, Reader etc. But soon Burrow's number will likely eclipse 50 million.

 

Right now the Bengals pay Chase 8 million. But in 3 years that will be above 30 million.

 

The Burrow-Higgins-Chase trio will cost around 110 million a year soon. Right now it costs like 20 million a year. 

 

That's 90 million in savings you need to get from using cheaper drafted players over guys on a second contract who cashed in (like Bates wants to do).

 

1 hour ago, GoBengals said:

 

in case you arent joking.

 

so you expect every other player to take market value based on 2022 salary cap so all of the increase can be given to bates?

 

"i mean the cap goes up, but no one in the nfl is going to want more money on the market so its easy as pie bates is basically covered"

 

lol, you cant be serious, right? the cap goes up, everyone is magically worth more, because the cap went up, how do you suspect we talk the other 52 players into not wanting more money because we gave it to bates?

 

not to mention the flux in the cap over the last 10-11 years has been wild, if you could guarantee 2014 to 2019 stability sure, plan to spend, it just jump way high depending on the nfl rights and apple deal in a year, and all these new TNF SNF deals, but all 53 guys get more money eventually, a constant rotation of new money being spend on all roster spots with each new contract. if we locked up the other 52 guys to 5 years deals right now, then w can give the bump to cover bates alone.

 

 image.png

 

^^^ last 11 years is a trainwreck.

 

 

I understand how it works.  I understand it is always a battle deciding who to keep and who to let walk because of money.  But I am seeing salary cap projections of the cap being $300 million by 2026.  That means 2023 salary cap $225 million, 2024 cap of $250 million and 2025 it will be $275 million.  That is another $150 million they have to spend the next 3 years.  Some are projecting more with all the online betting coming on.  My point is paying Bates or any one else for that matter $15 million a year for next 3 years won't have much monetary influence on Joe and the others later on.

 

Listen, I am not saying sign Bates.  I am not saying he is worth his asking price or X amount of dollars.  I actually was disappointed when his regular season play suffered and he whined about it being his contract status.  All I am saying is if the Bengals do not think Bates is worth what he asking it is OK, just say it.

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Let's not fool anyone here.

 

Joe Burrow is the leader of this team, not Bates.

 

There are plenty who will step up as leaders on the Defense if Bates is not here.

 

Leaders don't put themselves as more important than the team.

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We just paid to protect Joe Burrow.  That's going to have to continue during Burrow's career.  He's 100 times more important than Bates, so his O-Linemen need to be paid.

 

Just can't pay a Safety with one exceptional season out of four (and one exceptional post-season) Top-10 money, yet we offered Bates' Top-5 and he's turning it down.  We have to move on.

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4 hours ago, Griever said:

Love Jessie...but we have Dax and other more pressing needs. I can see perhaps extending Vonn though. Leader, Mentor, Steady, has a penchant for making big plays.

I think Jesse screwed his own pooch,

Minky Dink the Squeeler is not worth anywhere near what they paid him

and Jesse will get nowhere near that no matter where he goes.

His call, of course, and his agent but he is going to be sorely disappointed

and end up on a shittier team that is not a Super Bowl contender nor have

the cohesion of this one.

Too bad all the way around.  I like the guy.

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On 7/28/2022 at 8:26 PM, BlackJesus said:

 

... It just comes down to math. The pie only has so many slices. Can't pay him top dollar and keep the QB-WR connections intact (which is the strength of the team). 


I understand, but is Tee Higgins really that important?  (ducking incoming projectiles). Could he not be replaced?  Leadership is what gets teams to win consistently.  

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2 hours ago, UncleEarl said:


I understand, but is Tee Higgins really that important?  (ducking incoming projectiles). Could he not be replaced?  Leadership is what gets teams to win consistently.  

Yes, Tee Higgins is that important.

 

After Master Bates current show of "leadership"... Bye, Felecia.

 

Besides, Bates' replacement is already here.

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22 hours ago, High School Harry said:

Yes, Tee Higgins is that important.

 

After Master Bates current show of "leadership"... Bye, Felecia.

 

Besides, Bates' replacement is already here.

I think you misunderstand the power of locker room leaders.  The only people upset with Bates right now are fans.  
 

There are dozens of guys in the NFL that could do what Higgins does getting balls from Burrow. 
 

 

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3 hours ago, UncleEarl said:

There are dozens of guys in the NFL that could do what Higgins does

 

I strongly disagree. The difference between Higgins and your average WR is so much larger in my view than the gap between Bates and your average FS. 

 

The NFL is now an offensive 'playmaker' league and if you don't have them your team is going nowhere, no matter how many other good players that don't touch the ball your team has.

 

This is why QBs are now going for 50 mill, and WRs are now going for 25 mill a year, as the rest of the league realizes scoring firepower is necessary to compete. 

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